21 cm/35 (8.24") Armstrong Pattern A Model 1890 for Argentina
Through this topic I want to suggest that this cannon be added to the Argentina section of the Navweaps website.
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Originally this cannon (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNNOR_83-44_EOC.php) is assigned to the gunship HNoMS Æger, but this is in principle an assumption that I interpret to be erroneous, since sources from this country mention that the cannons are Krupp (https://www.nb.no/items/f27cb497827fafd ... =%C3%A6ger).
More details and accurate information of the HNoMS Æger on the page 94
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Furthermore, even English-speaking sources simply assume this ("Naval Weapons of World War One" and others), which makes the above lose support, although an order number (4,669) is obtained.
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Returning to Argentina; "21 cm L/35 (8.24") Modelo 1890 Tiro Lento"* guns were used on an argentine heavy protected cruiser.
The Veinticinco de Mayo (formerly Necochea) cruiser was commissioned in 1891. And it has a very interesting peculiarity in its main armament, as it alternated cannons from both the German Krupp company and the British Armstrong company.
The Armstrong house, due to its nationalist pride, did not want Argentina to mount a German artillery as its main ship again on another of its locally built ships, as happened with the armoured gunboats Independencia and Libertad (former Nueve de Julio) that carried Krupp cannons of 240 millimeters (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_945-35_skc88.php). Then, in order to save it's honor, Armstrong gave the Argentine Navy two cannons in a cheap price (almost as a gift) and similar to the German ones, so that they were mounted when the ship was commissioned.
Apparently in Argentina the German cannons were reassembled, which served for a few years, until they were removed and installed as coastal/river defense. Thus the English cannons were reassembled again, which were used in most of the Argentine service of this cruiser.
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Among the characteristics of the 210mm Armstrong gun are:
-----Gun Characteristics-----
- Designation: 21 cm/35 (8.24") Armstrong Model 1890 BL (englished).
- Ship Class Used On: Veinticinco de Mayo cruiser.
- Date Of Design: 1890.
- Date In Service: 1891.
- Gun Weight: 15,240 kg. [1] [4]
- Gun Length oa: 303.9 in (7.72 m). [1] [4]
- Bore Length: 286.5 in (7.27 m). [1] [4]
- Chamber Volume: 82 in2. [4]
- Rate Of Fire: About 2 rounds per minute.
- Observations: The bore length is 34.76 calibers // The two cannons are registered as 7,291 and 7,292.
-----Ammunition-----
- Type: Bag.
- Projectile Types and Weights:
AP PPA (Proyectil Perforante de Acero / Steel Piercing Projectile): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1]
AP PPAC (Proyectil Perforante de Acero Cromado / Armor-Piercing Chrome Steel Projectile): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1]
AP PPHF (Proyectil Perforante de Hierro Fundido / Armor-Piercing Cast Iron Projectile): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [4]
APHE GPA (Granada Perforante de Acero / Steel Piercing Grenade): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [4]
APHE GPA(F) (Granada Perforante de Acero -Firminy- / Steel Piercing Grenade -Firminy-): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1]
APHE GSH (Granada Strong-Head / Strong-Head Grenade): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1]
Palliser GPH(P) (Granada Perforante de Hierro -Palliser- / Iron Piercing Grenade -Palliser-): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1] [3]
Common GCAF (Granada Común de Acero Fundido / Common Molten Steel Grenade): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1]
Common GCH (Granada Común de Hierro / Common Iron Grenade): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [4]
Common GCHF (Granada Común de Hierro Fundido / Common Cast Iron Grenade): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1] [4]
- Propellant Charge: 39.0 lbs (17.7 kg) 0.4 Cordite. [1] [2] [4]
- Muzzle Velocity: 2,202 fps (671 mps). [2] [4]
- Ammunition stowage per gun: 80 rounds. [3]
- Observations: The ammunition is acquired in two batches, the first from 1891 and the second from 1898 // I have to confirm if the projectiles and grenades manufactured by Krupp (weighing 140 kilograms) could be used directly or modified to be used in this cannon model.
-----Range-----
- Range of 210 lbs. (95.3kg) Shell.
- Elevation: 14.1 degrees. [3]
- Distance: Around 8,420 yards (7,700 m). [3]
-----Armor Penetration with AP Shell-----
- Range: 0.000 yards (0 m) & Vertical Iron Plate: 16.9 in (43 cm). [3]
- Range: 5,470 yards (5,000 m) & Vertical Iron Plate: 13.8 in (35 cm). [3]
- Observations: The data correspond to the projectiles from the first batch (1891).
-----Mount/Turret Data-----
- Designation: N/A**.
- Weight: Around 11.3 t (11,430 kg). [1]
- Elevation: -3.3 / +14.1 degrees. [3]
- Train: -135 / +135 degrees. [3]
- Observations: I have to confirm if modifications were made to the assembly to increase its elevation (the Krupp 210mm/35cs cannon had an elevation of 20 degrees and a range of 11,000 meters, which is obviously higher).
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From "Memorandum de Artillería".
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From "Tablas de Tiro y Datos Generales de la Artillería del crucero '25 de Mayo'".
![]()
From "Naval Weapons of World War One".
Without further ado, I bid you a cordial farewell.
Information sources:
[1] "Memorandum de Artillería" - B. P. Quiroga, 1899.
[2] "Estudios de Armamento" - Domecq García, 1923 [unpublished].
[3] "Tablas de Tiro y Datos Generales de la Artillería del crucero '25 de Mayo'" - Armada Nacional (Argentina), 1890s.
[4] "Naval Weapons of World War One" - N. Friedman, 2011.
*to name it in some way.
** Somekind of Armstrong-Vavasseur.
Through this topic I want to suggest that this cannon be added to the Argentina section of the Navweaps website.
Originally this cannon (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNNOR_83-44_EOC.php) is assigned to the gunship HNoMS Æger, but this is in principle an assumption that I interpret to be erroneous, since sources from this country mention that the cannons are Krupp (https://www.nb.no/items/f27cb497827fafd ... =%C3%A6ger).
More details and accurate information of the HNoMS Æger on the page 94
Furthermore, even English-speaking sources simply assume this ("Naval Weapons of World War One" and others), which makes the above lose support, although an order number (4,669) is obtained.
Returning to Argentina; "21 cm L/35 (8.24") Modelo 1890 Tiro Lento"* guns were used on an argentine heavy protected cruiser.
The Veinticinco de Mayo (formerly Necochea) cruiser was commissioned in 1891. And it has a very interesting peculiarity in its main armament, as it alternated cannons from both the German Krupp company and the British Armstrong company.
The Armstrong house, due to its nationalist pride, did not want Argentina to mount a German artillery as its main ship again on another of its locally built ships, as happened with the armoured gunboats Independencia and Libertad (former Nueve de Julio) that carried Krupp cannons of 240 millimeters (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_945-35_skc88.php). Then, in order to save it's honor, Armstrong gave the Argentine Navy two cannons in a cheap price (almost as a gift) and similar to the German ones, so that they were mounted when the ship was commissioned.
Apparently in Argentina the German cannons were reassembled, which served for a few years, until they were removed and installed as coastal/river defense. Thus the English cannons were reassembled again, which were used in most of the Argentine service of this cruiser.
Among the characteristics of the 210mm Armstrong gun are:
-----Gun Characteristics-----
- Designation: 21 cm/35 (8.24") Armstrong Model 1890 BL (englished).
- Ship Class Used On: Veinticinco de Mayo cruiser.
- Date Of Design: 1890.
- Date In Service: 1891.
- Gun Weight: 15,240 kg. [1] [4]
- Gun Length oa: 303.9 in (7.72 m). [1] [4]
- Bore Length: 286.5 in (7.27 m). [1] [4]
- Chamber Volume: 82 in2. [4]
- Rate Of Fire: About 2 rounds per minute.
- Observations: The bore length is 34.76 calibers // The two cannons are registered as 7,291 and 7,292.
-----Ammunition-----
- Type: Bag.
- Projectile Types and Weights:
AP PPA (Proyectil Perforante de Acero / Steel Piercing Projectile): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1]
AP PPAC (Proyectil Perforante de Acero Cromado / Armor-Piercing Chrome Steel Projectile): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1]
AP PPHF (Proyectil Perforante de Hierro Fundido / Armor-Piercing Cast Iron Projectile): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [4]
APHE GPA (Granada Perforante de Acero / Steel Piercing Grenade): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [4]
APHE GPA(F) (Granada Perforante de Acero -Firminy- / Steel Piercing Grenade -Firminy-): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1]
APHE GSH (Granada Strong-Head / Strong-Head Grenade): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1]
Palliser GPH(P) (Granada Perforante de Hierro -Palliser- / Iron Piercing Grenade -Palliser-): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1] [3]
Common GCAF (Granada Común de Acero Fundido / Common Molten Steel Grenade): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1]
Common GCH (Granada Común de Hierro / Common Iron Grenade): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [4]
Common GCHF (Granada Común de Hierro Fundido / Common Cast Iron Grenade): 210 lbs (95.3 kg). [1] [4]
- Propellant Charge: 39.0 lbs (17.7 kg) 0.4 Cordite. [1] [2] [4]
- Muzzle Velocity: 2,202 fps (671 mps). [2] [4]
- Ammunition stowage per gun: 80 rounds. [3]
- Observations: The ammunition is acquired in two batches, the first from 1891 and the second from 1898 // I have to confirm if the projectiles and grenades manufactured by Krupp (weighing 140 kilograms) could be used directly or modified to be used in this cannon model.
-----Range-----
- Range of 210 lbs. (95.3kg) Shell.
- Elevation: 14.1 degrees. [3]
- Distance: Around 8,420 yards (7,700 m). [3]
-----Armor Penetration with AP Shell-----
- Range: 0.000 yards (0 m) & Vertical Iron Plate: 16.9 in (43 cm). [3]
- Range: 5,470 yards (5,000 m) & Vertical Iron Plate: 13.8 in (35 cm). [3]
- Observations: The data correspond to the projectiles from the first batch (1891).
-----Mount/Turret Data-----
- Designation: N/A**.
- Weight: Around 11.3 t (11,430 kg). [1]
- Elevation: -3.3 / +14.1 degrees. [3]
- Train: -135 / +135 degrees. [3]
- Observations: I have to confirm if modifications were made to the assembly to increase its elevation (the Krupp 210mm/35cs cannon had an elevation of 20 degrees and a range of 11,000 meters, which is obviously higher).
From "Memorandum de Artillería".
From "Tablas de Tiro y Datos Generales de la Artillería del crucero '25 de Mayo'".
From "Naval Weapons of World War One".
Without further ado, I bid you a cordial farewell.
Information sources:
[1] "Memorandum de Artillería" - B. P. Quiroga, 1899.
[2] "Estudios de Armamento" - Domecq García, 1923 [unpublished].
[3] "Tablas de Tiro y Datos Generales de la Artillería del crucero '25 de Mayo'" - Armada Nacional (Argentina), 1890s.
[4] "Naval Weapons of World War One" - N. Friedman, 2011.
*to name it in some way.
** Somekind of Armstrong-Vavasseur.
statistics: Posted by COLDOWN Bis — 10:00 AM - 1 day ago — Replies 4 — Views 72